Michael,
THanks for this. I will follow your advice in terms of seeing if its
possible to hangout with Andrew's senior students. That is my purpose in
writing to you. I will keep an open mind.
I feel strongly that there is no "absolute truth" about any of this and
that all points of view are valid. I am sure that what you say is true
for you and for the senior students you mention. I am sure that what
Andre Van der Brack says is true for him.
My own response is simply visceral - and perhaps incorrect. I read
"Autobiography of an awakening" with tremendous excitement for the first
half. The second half totally repelled me - it felt like this long victim
story of betrayal and of how hard it is to be a spiritual teacher,
justifying the extraordinary lengths Andrew has to go to "awaken" his
students. Rudi talks extensively about how hard it is to be a teacher,
but I do not get a feeling of victimization from it, or a justification
for extraordinary measures that may be borderline ethical. Andrew's "In
defense of the guru principle" occurs as the same - ie not as a response
from a mature conscious individual who can acknowledge that he is capable
of making mistakes and who occasionally suffers from arrogance,
ego-inflation and narcissism, like the rest of us. Looking from the
outside in, without direct experience of the teacher himself or the
students, Andrew's position occurs as absurd.
But of course I may be wrong.
I feel strongly that this conversation is important and transformational ,
and I am wondering if you would object if I published this to the
"Comments" of the review.
All the best to you - I am sure we will meet at some point.
Marc

> Hi,
>
> Okay, I'll try to offer a brief response.
>
> First, with respect to your comments about basic human decency, if you're
> really interested in finding out the truth about this you'll simply have
> to take the time to get to know Andrew himself. Only by knowing someone
> over a long period of time can you get to know what they're really about.
> Second, the asshole guru thing. Same response, I guess. I can tell you
> from my experience that I've never met a more caring, considerate and
> deeply compassionate human being than Andrew. The truth is that most of
> the stuff that's out there about him is half-truth's taken out of context.
> I could give you one interesting example, but it would take too long to
> write down.
>
> The point you make about cultural conditioning is valid also. We are also
> so culturally conditioned against hierarchy and any form of spiritual
> authority that when we hear things like Andrew's mom, Andre, etc. we
> automatically believe them as completey unbiased and totally true -
> without further question, simply because they said so. Also, the
> conspiracy of silence. That was the case for a long time. Don't dignify
> undignified attacks by engaging with them. About a year ago, however,
> people persuaded Andrew otherwise and if you'll read the first installment
> of his blog on his site you can see his response. Also, my book was a way
> of responding as well. I'm sick and tired of people who for one reason or
> another didn't want to continue under Andrew who then spend their lives
> trying to destroy him with distortions and half-truths. Consider that
> there are other people, like my friend Craig Hamilton, once senior editor
> of the magazine, who left without trying
> to destroy Andrew, who deeply appreciate what he's done for them and
> still love him. I truly believe that those who are out to get him (and
> let's get real - there are about 25 people out of hundreds) do so because
> of the betrayal of their own conscience that they can't abide. That is
> what tempted me so powerfully on the one day during the retreat that I
> mention it.
>
> The bottom line for myself is that in all the years that I've been at this
> Andrew has the most, not only deep spiritual integrity and a level of
> authentic care that is practically unheard of in this world, but basic
> human decency, of anyone I've ever met. That's a very big part of the
> reason I'm with him.
>
> Lastly, as far as Andrew not having developed any authentic spiritual
> masters, I would encourage to question that conviction. Spend a little
> time around Andrew's more senior students. They would simply blow your
> mind: Elizabeth Debold, Carter Phipps, Jeff Carreira, Robert Heinzman, to
> name just a few, would blow most other spiritual teachers "on the scene"
> today absolutely out of the water. Their transmission is extraordinary and
> they teach in a variety of capacities under Andrew. The truth is that
> there are about 50 people around Andrew who have crossed "the 51% point."
> To see how extraordinary and true this is, you have spend time getting to
> know some of them. That's one of the things that's most inspiring to me
> because if they can cross that threshold, so can I. The point is that I've
> never actually met another teacher who was surrounded by so many
> enlightened students. It's actually breathtaking and radically inspiring.
>
> Anyway, that's my thoughts for now.
>
> Best,
> Mike
>
> Mike Wombacher
> www.doggonegood.org
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Marc Beneteau
> To: Michael Wombacher
> Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 6:51:20 AM
> Subject: Re: Hi
>
> Michael,
>
> yes I know, I found the Rudi book through you.
>
> I appreciate your respone. I have read the Appendix now - here is my
> response and the goal here is to get your feedback.
>
> First I deeply apologize for my premature comments. I will update the
> review as soon as I can. Or possibly post your response and this to the
> comments of the review.
>
> Secondly your Appendix is very interesting, and espcially the last
> paragraph I find persuasive. It has altered my point of view to some
> extent.
>
> I would like to try and condense my feelings about this into a small a
> space as possible.
>
> From reading John Mann ("Rudi - 14 years with my master") it appears that
> Andrew follows in a long tradition of "asshole gurus", which includes
> Muktananda. What I mean by this, is people with obvious spiritual power
> but who behave with a seeming lack of ordinary human courtesy, who seem to
> lack basic control of their anger, and who communicate irresponsibly (I am
> sure you have read Andre Van der Brack - I can't believe he is lying).
> But
> above and beyond that.. I get an instinctive negative reaction from all
> this. I don't like this person. What good is it to pursue
> "enlightenment"
> under a teacher who is emotionally repelling and seeming to lack in
> ordinary judgment, common sense and relationship skills. There are plenty
> of authentic spiritual masters who did not behave in this way (see for
> example the very interesting article by Alan Kazlev
> http://www.integralworld.net/index.html?kazlev2.html that also presents an
> interesting critique of Ken Wilber). And lastly, the fact that after 20
> years of teaching, Andrew has not yet produced a spiritual master from one
> of his students is significant.
>
> I am prepared to acknowledge the possibility that most of this is my
> social
> conditioning - and if it were only for the above I might let it go. By
> comparison with most other gurus, Andrew compares very well (at least he
> is
> not fucking his students and lying about it). Except that, there is the
> incident about the 2 million dollar donation that was taken under
> conditions that are extremely ethically dubious. Read the "What
> Enlightenment" blog about this. It seems to me that Andrew ought to have
> the resources to return the money and clear the incident. That would be
> the path with integrity.
>
> None of this would be important of course, were it not for the
> extraordinary power of the teachings, their unique applicability to the
> condition of Western spiritual seekers and Western materialism and
> narcissism, and for many documented cases of spiritual transformation
> through Andrew's presence. And also - Andrew is here. In our face.
> "Speaking truth to power" (as the Quakers say). And living in
> Massachussets (as opposed to India). He is one of us.
>
> Its possible that Andrew is not the teacher for me - one could argue I
> should just move on and leave well enough alone - let him create his
> vision
> with the people that he genuinely appeals to. However I am not prepared
> to
> give up so easily and move on some other teacher. At this stage what
> WOULD
> make a difference to me would be if this dialogue - with you and with his
> other students - could be made alive and that there would not be a sense
> of
> any "conspiracy of silence". I don't know Andrew well enough to know
> whether that is possible or not. To deliberately suppress the dialog - or
> not to have it out of fear of repercussions - is a violation of the
> teaching itself (as I understand it). I need to know whether you guys
> (Andrew's students) are up to this. I need to know whether Andrew himself
> is up to this.
>
> I hope this is all making sense. I always appreciate your feedback and I
> am continuing to explore with my local EE community. I will keep you
> posted.
>
> And thank you for the wonderful book that inspired all of this. I get the
> feeling you are an extremely decent , thoughtful and caring human being,
> and that these are all issues that you have thought about already, and
> deeply.
>
> All the best,
>
> Marc
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Wombacher" ;
> To: "Marc Beneteau"
> Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 9:18 AM
> Subject: Re: Hi
>
>
>> Hey,
>>
>> Nice to hear from you. I'm very familiar with the Rudi book. It's one of
>> the books that inspired me to write my book. My former teacher was
>> Rudi's
>> closest student. He was with Rudi in the airplane crash that killed him.
>> I actually began writing about my relationship with him but then broke
>> off the relationship. As you read, this was largely around ethical
>> issues.
>>
>> I have to tell you that Andrew is the most ethically demanding and also
>> ethical person I've ever met. That's one of the reasons I'm with him.
>> Read that appendix and then we can talk.
>>
>> Best,
>> Mike
>>
>> Mike Wombacher
>> www.doggonegood.org
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----
>> From: Marc Beneteau
>> To: Michael Wombacher
>> Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 3:56:10 AM
>> Subject: Re: Hi
>>
>> Yes, and you warned us to read the Appendixes, duh.. let me see what I
>> can
>> do about that.
>> I need to tell you in any case, that I am on a fascinating journey of
>> discovery that was stimulated by your book and would love to discuss
>> with
>> you more. Your book led me to Swami Rudrananda which led me to "Rudi,
>> 14
>> years with my master" (John Mann) - strongly, strongly recommended book
>> -
>> which talks about his relationship with Muktananda and brings up the
>> same
>> kind of issue as with Cohen. I am on the fence about Cohen and I am
>> currently checking with my local EE community (many of whom are friends)
>> to
>> get their feedback on this and make a decision in terms of my engagement
>> with Cohen and EE.
>> I'll be in touch soon..
>> Marc
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Michael Wombacher"
>> To: "Marc Beneteau" "Marc Beneteau"
>>
>> Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 1:46 AM
>> Subject: Hi
>>
>>
>>> Hi Mark,
>>>
>>> I want to thank you for your nice review on Amazon and just make one
>>> comment. The issue of ethics and the controversy around Andrew I did
>>> actually address quite directly in the appendix on Purity and
>>> Corruption
>>> in Spiritual Authority figures. Just wondering if you read that.
>>> Anyway,
>>> thanks for your generally nice comments on my book.
>>>
>>> Warmly,
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> Mike Wombacher
>>> www.doggonegood.org
>>>